My former upline in Amway/Quixtar is bankrupt....
World Wide Dreambuilder's Triple Diamond and former IBOAI board of director Greg and Laurie Duncan have been in bankruptcy court since Sep. 11 2007! A site visitor notified me of the bankruptcy after checking up on their numerous houses that were in foreclosure last year. The Duncan's listed assets of $63 million and debts of $8.4 million. Despite having millions in net worth, the Duncan's cannot service all their debts.
The Duncan's owed $1.7 million to the IRS for back taxes and penalties and $452,000 to the State of Montana for back taxes.
In April of 2008, the Duncan's filed a reorganization plan and disclosure statement under court sealing that was later unsealed when it went into Chapter 7.
Supposedly $9 million of Duncan's cash got drained away in a lawsuit over the rights to sell he XS energy drink. I obtained documentation of a suit involving the XS energy drink brand with a company called Cetalon. Cetalon claimed it was given marketing rights for the XS brand and was suing for its piece of the pie after Quixtar became a major buying. Greg Duncan was named as a defendant, and Cetalon went bankrupt when it lost the case.
All the bankruptcy documents are public record on Pacer.
Double Your Income with Network Marketing
Check out the new book by MLM Blog founder, Ty Tribble, published by the largest business book publisher in the world...
Click Here To See The Book On Amazon.com Now
More MLM Blog Articles Written By: Ty Tribble
Ty is an Internet Marketer, Blogger and Social Marketing Entrepreneur
Proof it isn't always how much money you make but what you do with it.
Deception is the way to go when you're in Quixtar. I remember going to an open meeting where the presenter said that if you sign up as an ibo and do nothing else you'll be able to shop Quixtar products at %50 off. How so one might wonder. Well first of all, he said, Quixtar products are already %25 cheaper then the stores thanks to the company's "proprietary distribution model". And on top of that ibo prices are %25 cheaper then those of a retail customer. And walla ladies and gentlemen, %50 off.
I was sitting there thinking "What a bunch of stuff".
Did I mention that this a TEAM meeting where the word "Quixtar" was forbidden by opens and the word "Amway" was forbidden period. TEAM was the only company discussed.
I wonder if they're pulling off the same stuff with Monavie.
boruch siper your a liar! I cant believe you would use this as an excuse to complain about team AGAIN! That never happened and you always say that but you have no witness's and you obviously have a grudge by all your anti team stuff of utube, and we all know you get paid by amway to bash orrin and his crew, i mean really go get a job or a hobby or something, mlm WORLD is tired of hearing you complain about team! take up knitting or the debate "team" (uh oh there is that word you dont like) maybe you should take up yoga.
Antisipper – you sipped! The kool-aid that is. It's okay, I did too for a while, woke up from the coma several years ago.
livin the life,
let me guess you want me to check our "livin duh life deal" i have a successful business that has nothing to do with amway, boruch is just greedy and is obviously employed by amway, 100's of thousands of mlm people watched amway and team and we watched team over and over again represent the lil guy handing the big guy his nuts Amway has damaged huge chunks of our society, lets get real amway cant get its big pins to go do anything anymore, the business is being built on 22 year old kids/adults listening to 22 year old recordings, the leaders are not leading and you have a large group of ineffective business builders out there because why? the leaders are not leading and amway doesnt care about their ibo's Walmart use to be smaller then amway…lol what happened??? amways selfishness and lack of leadership and vision, this isnt a promo for woodwards group, that is the facts of life.
Wow, the negative ora all around here is incredible. I joined Amway Global 3 or 4 months ago, and have made more enough back, and is growing crazy as i plant the seeds, I make more in profits than my upline, and will be retired by this time next year.
And you guys will still be slaving away, i respect that, but there is other opportunities you just have to find what works best for you.
To the poster above! KEEP SAYING THAT TO YOURSELF. NEXT YEAR YOU BE SAYING WTF DID I DO?!?!? ALL THE BRAINWASHED FOOLS SAY THAT IN THE BEGINNING AND I GUARANTEE YOU THAT YOU WILL NOT BE IN SCAMWAY THIS TIME NEXT YEAR!
Posted by: antisipper | March 28, 2009 at 09:49 PM
Wow, the negative ora all around here is incredible. I joined Amway Global 3 or 4 months ago, and have made more enough back, and is growing crazy as i plant the seeds, I make more in profits than my upline, and will be retired by this time next year.
And you guys will still be slaving away, i respect that, but there is other opportunities you just have to find what works best for you.
Y'all are incredibly stupid! Amway/Global has people in other countries thankful to God that they are there. One lady broke 800 Diamonds in her organization,and it started because she wanted to buy her lipstick wholesale. Y'all are so stupid it is unbelievable. Anything will work if you work it. Amway has been around for 50 years,and has evolved,and grown with each year. I am speechless, and y'all are Stupid! Shut up or Go Diamond.
I was downline from Greg Duncan for many years. Always had high respect for him and his wife. I think the internet has hurt more than help the WWDB group. It's hard to keep "secrets" nowadays with anything. After I found out that the BIG PINS were really making their money off the tapes, books and functions, I got turned off with the whole WWDB thing. My respect for Mr. Duncan came down a few notches.
I still think the MLM industry is a good industry. I'm always on the lookout for new and great products to sell through the MLM industry. I am a real go-getter!
I don’t understand??? Why don’t Greg borrow from his family? His dad Dave…. he is a diamond, and of course, his brother Brad….. He got lots of money!! Is money more important than family?
I don’t understand how you can get upset or loose respect because you found out that Mr. Duncan is making money off of cds, books and functions… That’s how this world works. It’s not like that is the ONLY way he makes money. It shocks me on a daily basis how stupid people are! How anyone can call it “scamway” is beyond me. I guess the NBA playing in the AMWAY ARENA doesn’t mean anything either. I guess that’s how they pay for everything, by scamming dumb people. Do you actually believe that stores like Dicks Sporting Goods, Office Depot, and Sears would partner up with Amway if it was a scam?? It is a very respected business! People who talk crap about it are typically the ones who got into it, realized they had to do some work and that it WASNT a get rich quick scheme… and bailed out because there lack of motivation or desire to be anything other than a bum for the rest of their life. So now all they can do is sit and blog about how it’s a “scam” and all the millionaires in it spend their days tricking people. Get a life! Knowledge wouldn’t help either!
Carla,
A couple of questions for you…
1. How long have you been in?
2. How much was your last bonus check?
You can talk about Sears, and the Amway Arena all you want. The reality comes back to how is it working for you. I can tell you for a fact that WWDB has not been breaking diamonds and any successful rate. 7 new diamonds in 10 years. That is what I would call failing as a leadership development company.
those people who trusted Amway will not be denied.
those who do the business wrongly hv to answer for it.
we hv equal opportunity in AMWAY
NO TIME FOR THIS TYPE OF THINGS
i WILL DO MY AMWAY BUSINESS AND SUCCESS
WE WANT WE WILL WE MUST
DIAMOND!!!!!
only lazy people cant success in amway business.
only bad hearted people will fail their amway business
so dont be lazy and be a good hearted man
u can be a diamond
dony believe all those noncence up there
My husband and I have been in the business since April… Our last check was 1,100.00. Every month they get better. Now we don’t sit at home and watch tv all night either. We work almost every night. This business is not for the lazy. Our Mentor is VERY successful. Not everyone in this business is going to become diamond. Alot of them will fail. That is just human nature for people to want something for very little… I believe people are skeptical because they think it may be a get rich quick scheme, they get in and get right back out because they realized that it’s not a get rich quick quick scheme and that they actually may have to do some work. What is your issue with amway anyhow… Why are you so againts it? You don’t seem like an idiot, so what is the deal? It works for the people that work it. There is a system put in place that has a proven track record. The people working it have to do more than just sign up. There are people who are in the business for years and come to all the functions and all the meetings and never go anywhere in the business. It’s only because they don’t really apply the things that they’ve learned in those meetings in there day to day life. They treat it like a hobby instead of THEIR business…
Keep going Carla. Maybe you can become a triple diamond and “duplicate” what Mr. Duncan has done.
No, actually working the Amway business does not guarantee success.
And, no, we did not think it was a ‘get rich quick’ business. Actually, they tell you that anyone can ‘go Diamond’ in 2-5 years. THAT, my friend, would be considered a get rich quickly scheme.
So, when someone gets in, works it for years (much longer than 2-5) and still ends up with nothing, it can’t always be b/c they were lazy. Just once, couldn’t it be the biz?
The economy has finally caught up with Amway. All those lazy losers with *gasp* jobs, can no longer buy overpriced Amway products precisely b/c they have lost those dirty jobs. You know they type – the Just Over Broke ones.
Without those *jobs*, they can’t keep making the cc payments to pay for their Amway products. I really resent how Amway makes fun of anyone who works a job. It’s insulting and incredibly naive. Exactly how in the world did anyone make a living before the 1960? hmmm? MLMs didn’t exist. Do you think people just shriveled and died with “where is Amway when you need it?” as their last words?
Amway acts like it can take the place of God.
HELLO! Obviously this business works! “The Duncan’s listed assets of $63 million HELLO!, HELLO!, HELLO! How can you ignore their assets? There’s NO way they would have created that net worth without Amway. I agree he did get DOUBLE MINDED and made a couple of bad business decisions (non Amway businesses). I think this was a good thing for Greg and Laurie. Maybe now they’ll pull their heads all the way out and get back to the basics of what got them there. They are great people, and I’m looking forward to having them back, focused as they once were.
Shells (post above this 2)-
You’re pretty much right on. The worst part about WWDB is how they act like God has given them the right to be leaders because they have more acurately focused on “his work”. If we could all just be more like the Amway leaders we would be “blessed” as they are. All that nonesense lays the ground work for why people consider the whole thing cultish. Cults are those orgs that attempt to convince people they are in position to speak on God’s behalf, which in essence is exactly what WWDB has done for years. I say good luck with that.
Amway Rocks (post directly above this)-
You can’t go bankrupt without debt obligations greater than resources to pay for the servicing of those debts. Greg Duncan basically lied to thousands of people’s faces about finances for 30 years. You act like he didn’t stand up there ‘more holy then thou’ about financial intellegence all this time. The whole while he was living the lie. Amazing. You may let him off easy in your post … but its only because you have spent so much time with the biz you want it to work so bad for personal gain and reasons. You know Greg lied huge for a long time here but you want to make money so you’re trying to downplay it.
No way did those assets come from something you or any other IBO could duplicate. He made millions in BSMs and XS … both are not near anything you the opportunity to do.
Its about duplication and you can’t duplicate because he wasn’t just double minded … he was double & triple dipping into your pockets. You can’t duplicate all the ways he as digging into you pocketbook.
The one thing we can agree on, is that we are both happy this happened. I am happy because all this is just showing the Mgmt Team as a body are just out for themselves and anything they can do to make money they will do without regard to the IBOs.
$50/month for what they called a website was the last straw for me … that stupid auto generated thing they give you 12characters to add you name on. Its not a website its highway robbery. Haha, they are just a bunch of ripoff crooks.
I’m really quite curious about Amway and WWG/WWDB. Brad Duncan is coming to my home town in 3 days and someone is trying like crazy to sponsor me. I can see from both sides at this point. On the one hand I can see where people would be angry that the Duncans make a lot of money from seminars and tapes and books and what not, however business is all about income streams and if you have 3 or 4 or 20 its better than just one.
I do also find it strange that there is very little good being said about the business, for some people this is enough to condemn it before even trying. However I believe that it is because the people who are succesful do not have time to troll blogs and post replies. Why bother? Many people have already made up their minds as to how they feel and someone saying “This has worked for me” will just be called liars.
As of yet I am not 100% sold on this whole industry, however I am not going to trash it until I have had a taste. I know several people personally who have made enough money with WWG and Amway to quit their day job, and I know others that gave it a shot and decided that it wasn’t for them. I have met very few people who have said that they hate it, or that it is a scam, or that it is a cult.
As to all this “they think they can speak for God” business. Pull your head out of your ass. I don’t think anything less intelligent can be said about this business. They are not a cult, they are not trying to replace God and they’re not out to steal your money.
Ther are in the business of selling dreams and hope to people who have none. As far as I’m concerned good for them. You wouldn’t fault someone for selling shovels during the goldrush. The information provided works, it has been proven to work. Some people just don’t have the motivation, or the determination, or the intelligence to follow through.
Also 2-5 years to quit your day job and make a million dollars isn’t a get rich quick time frame. Many business’ started with nothing and within a short period of time sky rocketed into the millions, even billions of dollars, take youtube as a perfect example. Amway doesn’t guarantee that you’ll make millions, but I can guarantee that if you stick with it and work intelligently you will be able to quit your job.
At this point I am in no way affiliated with Amway or WWG, I am talking strictly from the exposure to the organization that I have.
Amway Newb-
You’re right, Brad will call everyone “dream stealers” and “losers”. He will tell everyone how much he “loves” them.
You’re also right about income streams. The problem is I dare you to ask him about the % the Support Materials contribute to his income stream. Do in front of people in 3 days. Go for it.
They don’t talk about it because they are ashamed, as they should be. You, as a new IBO, have no opportunity to get a peice of the Tools income stream yet that is what is proping up their lifestyles .. yet they will act as though its all Amway PV. Its all a lie,
Yeah, in 2-5 years you can put a bid in on Ron Puryear’s house. Its for sale now. Greg Duncan can’t buy it, he lost all his property.
Ask around about how many in the room hit the 2-5 years. I dare you.
Put your money where your mouth is and do the research when you go to the function in 3 days.
You’re new, just like you said, so ask the tough questions when you go. I once again dare you!
Its $300 a month in tools to be involved with Brad and WWDB. Good luck.
Cary and others, the bankruptcy documents indicate pretty conclusively that Brad Duncan does NOT make the majority of his income from tools and makes more from Amway than he does from WWDB.
1. Brad Duncan is not on the bankruptcy documents.
2. If you are referring to Greg Duncan, give page numbers and quotes…I saw nothing in the documents that made me come to that conclusion.
oops, I keep getting them mixed up! Check document 171 – Operating report. Seife Inc (Amway) income was 447,741 for Feb-Dec 2007. Diamant Motivation Inc income for Jan-Dec 2007 (1 month more) was 131,197 for tools income. There was also 134,875 for speaking fees, however that’s a separate issue as it’s not directly related to his group. Finally there was 188,053 management fees from being on the board of WWG. That fee I believe is linked to the size of his Amway business so could be considered “tool income” though it comes out of overall WWG income. If you add all of it up it’s 459,850. Convert the Amway income to 12 months and it woukd be as much as 488,444 (though probably a little high due to yearly bonuses). This puts total WWG income at less than half total Amway+WWG income. Include only direct tool income (tapes/books/tickets/websites) and it’s way less than his Amway income.
I personally believe speaking fees should be excluded from a “tools income” vs “amway income” discussion as that income is generally significantly generated from outside ones own personal Amway group and there’s no real ethical issues involved. Management fees are borderline, but I think reasonable to include them.
Either way Greg Duncan is likely to be on the high end of tool vs amway income ratios, so this would indicate other Diamonds make significantly more from Amway than WWG, which matches statistics I have from Network 21.
I too did it seriously for two years. Everybody please check out Eric’s ” merchants of deceptions”. Amway is not a dream seller. Its a dream stealer. Hard earned money of thousands of people is being swindled away by the bloody uplines’ lies. Keep doing it. You will be done with. MLM industry is something, where first you need to get deceived. Secondly, Stay there in the deception. Then start deceiving others. Good luck all IBOs. God alone will save you.
WWG never has outside diamond speakers so other systems rarely bring them in to speak. I would bet that the majority of Greg’s speaking fees come from WWG.
By the way, $447,741 in income as a Triple Diamond? Wow, that sucks. People with businesses the size of Greg Duncan’s in other pay plans might be making that per month.
ibofb-
Isn’t it interesting that the only time we can get truthful numbers about the diamond’s income comes from when someone goes bankrupt and the law gets involved to make the truth public information.
I know in Brad’s organization people are convinced he makes 10mil a year. Brad has a slightly bigger business than Greg but your numbers are putting Greg at around 1mil?
Clearly Greg was playing this property leverage game for 20+ years to buildup that kind of net worth … finally he didn’t have the cash flow to service the debt.
He shouldn’t have been maneuvering around Amway to sell ‘All In’ and I guess the lawsuit would have never happened. Also, shows why a guy with a net worth of 60 mil couldn’t service his debts making around 1 mil a year.
There just isn’t any honesty in WWDB Mgmt Team. They never talk about their tool income at all. As if it doesn’t exist.
Takes something like this to show the numbers .. yet the whole time they will declare they are all about “family values”, “personal integrity”, and “financial intelligence”.
They need to save the drama, all we really care about is “basic truth”. haha
The commercialization of family and friendship relations or the use of ‘leads’,which is required in the Amway business is a destructive element in the community and very unhealthy for individuals involved. Capitalizing upon family ties and loyalties of friendships in order to build a business can destroy ones social foundation. It places stress on relationships that may never return to their original bases of love, loyalty and support. Beyond its destructive social aspects, experience shows that few people, when they keep on attending meeting after meetings getting them out of the vicious circle routine is a Herculean task as many need psychiatric treatment.
enjoy or appreciate being solicited by friends and relatives to buy products.
Hi, Amway Crooks;
Amway is like any other dying ‘Wizard of Oz’ type biz. Your are mesmorized by the man behind the curtain while the Ambot in front of you is ripping the $6 (or whatever is costs now to attend a local function)out of your hand and slapping you silly for even looking his way.
You know something in desparately wrong but you are paralyzed to stop attending. You begin to wonder how the hell you got along in life with Amway.
But really, do they think life on the planet begin in 1959?
No one could make a decent living before 1959?
Everyone was totally inept before 1959?
Columbus was searching for the Fountain of Amway?
Christ died so we could have Amway?
I got out several years ago and it is wonderful. I love my J.O.B. and I have *gasp* free time. No, there is no PV in TV, but I can cuddle up to my husband and actually relax now.
It can take years to finally climb high enough to make money on the tapes, books, and functions. And what are we supposed to do in the meantime? The Amway answer: suck it up and work it harder. My answer: kiss my ass.
And here is the truly huge glaring lie in Amway: they want to know where else you could possibly make that kind of money. I’ll tell you. Christ said to tithe and he would make sure your needs would be met. Amway wants you to tithe to them.
They still tell people that the reason they hold ‘church’ services (3 hrs. of hard sell Amway and the scriptures to back it up *gag*) is b/c the Ambots were so enthusiastic the churches couldn’t handle them. Real reason: the church members got fed up with thousands of Ambots flooding their churches and trying to recruit everyone in sight. The churches put a stop to it. Another Amway spin.
I could go on but this frustration is why I got out.
Amway has NEVER done anything wrong its the people your in business with STUPID people
If you do the work the business model works, don’t get me wrong its a lot of hard work, was platinum almost ruby. Just got burned out. We own 4 successful businesses making more money than we did in Amway. Less headaches.
I am Greg, and Brad’s cousin. I showed Brad the plan in my home. My brother showed the plan to Greg. That’s right, I am their upline. I have been in the business since 1981 but haven’t been actively building it for many years. I have probably forgotten more about the Amway business than most of you will ever know. To those who feel that the “biz”, as they call it, is not real or is a scam, your ignorance speaks for itself. Greg, Brad,Drew and Dave Duncan are all of the highest repute as evidenced by all whom they have helped and the success that they all have enjoyed no matter what the endeavor. i have no problem with an opposing point of view, I do, however, cannot tolerate ignorance and sour grapes. It is obvious that those who whine the loudest are those who have failed to accomplish what they wished. The business is not for everyone, just like being a doctor is not for everyone. Ever wonder what the failure rate in med school is? Not many make it to the NFL either, but I don’t hear you calling it a scam. Time to grow up guys.
Hi Greg and Brad’s cousion. What is the failure rate of med school? What about the NFL? I bet the failure rate in Amway is still much worse. Greg and Brad made lots of money in Amway and by selling sueless Amway tools. They also lied to make some of that money. I remember Greg saying “stupid comes to mind” when talking about people making loans or mortgages. I also remember Greg talking about when his daughter grows up, he will ask his son in law what his best (job) offer is, and double that offer and have him work for him. All nice a teary eyed stories. And all bunk apparently.
The bankruptcy is actually funny. I wonder how this is explained to downline or is it just ignored like so many other Amway related scandals?.
Dear JR,
Since you are part of the family, please answer this question.
Did Greg and Laurie Duncan file for bankruptcy protection? Just a yes or no please.
Thank you,
RK
JR
I was actually around Brad for a few years, winning contests, staying at the bunkhouse (the 9 bunks in the living quarters of his large garage-shed place), riding the fourwheelers, yadda yadda … so anyway I know you are aware of how huge of an exaggerator Brad is as a person, sometimes its borderline lying. I have heard him many times flat out lie about things to many people. So are you the cousin that was the bridge between Severn and Greg?
Nonetheless, I’m with RK WWDB … bottom line, did Greg file bankruptcy? Scott Larson seems to have the actual paperwork on the internet. Property in Whitefish gone? It looks like he had 5 properties on an interest only mortgage and couldn’t service his debt after he lost that big lawsuit from basically selling XS behind Amway’s back and called it ‘All In’. I guess he has a deep love for gambling too apparently.
Did Ron Puryear unload the Riverhouse yet? I know he put it up for sale for 19mil… last I heard it was just sitting on the market.
I am not aware of any of the details of Greg and Laurie’s present situation or if they filed for BK protection. I would imagine that would be for them to say.
Joecool: If you look at the number of football players who play college ball and then look at the number who make it to the NFL it is obvious that the number who make it is very small. I do not have a percentage number. I will admit that probably more individuals do not make it big in “the biz”. But there are so many more attributes to the business than just making money. The success principles and interpersonal skills I learned have served me very well throughout my life. I must admit that I don’t understand your apparent anger. Did someone hurt you in some way? If so, that is truly unfortunate. And as to the BK being funny, I find it sad that you find the misfortune of others humorous. It is my hope that you have good things happen in your life. I do not begrudge anyone their success.
Yes, I am the cousin that is the bridge between Dave Severn and Greg. I actually did several of Greg’s first meetings for him when he was still in med school and living in a very small apartment in Seattle.
I would be be very careful about calling someone a liar unless 1.) you have absolute proof of the lie and 2.) you have never lied in your life either.
It is my understanding that the River House is for sale. Ron simply doesn’t use it much as he loves to golf and his other residence on the golf course seems to fit his lifestyle more.
TO the response of tool, BSM, and system profits. I used to be an NCAA Div 1 baseball player in college, you know how many coaches/players/former players put out training books/CD’s/DVD’s and profit off of both young and older aspiring athletes through retail outlets, in the meantime promising a potential lucrative career???!!!
I dont understand the argument that its bad to profit off of people by giving them motivation to succeed, as well as some methodology.
As far as directs breaking, and diamond directs breaking, there will be plenty. There are thriving IBO’s out there unlike some of my hedge fund/investment banker friends who are going broke because they lived above their means when times were better.
Its the American Dream my friend.
WWDB numbers are way down from a few years ago. I would have no problem paying for the system if it worked.
Talks is cheap. Just look at the fruit on the tree.
Greg Duncan: Bankrupt
Ron Puryear: Selling (or already sold) River House
Brad Wolgamott: Left WWDB (launching his own thing maybe?)
Jim Harstad: Left for another company
7 new diamonds in 10 years?
Someone should ask Bill Hawkins how many people he helped earn over $10,000 a month in the last 30 years including system money. I bet the number would shock you.
JR, I’m not anrgy. But I sat in the audience when Greg Duncan puts down jobs and says people are stupid for taking out mortgages. I remember how they downplayed the importance of a college education. I remember a true north tape where they told people that once you ordered a standing order, you could never cancel it. I heard many deceptive things when i sat in a WWDB audience. I have a good memory. I also remember a touching story Greg Duncan told the audience. That someday his future son in law would sit down with him and he would offer twice as much (salary) as his future son in law’s best offer. I wonder if that will happen now? My former sponsor was a physician who put off buying a home because he said he would never buy a home unless he had the cash. A vicitm of Greg’s silly and hypocritical advice?
More WWDB Fruit
Shores home foreclosed
Howie Danzik divorced from Susan
Dean Kosage divorced
In Amway, you aren’t producing anything. It’s a tawdry endless recycling of BS. No one, save those very few MANUFACTURING Amway-originated products in Ada, MI, is doing anything of substance. Is the ongoing routine of an Amway distributor a service? Perhaps in some sense, but not the kind of service that truly lends credible service to other people! The cold hard truth is simply common sense: no new real wealth in terms of producing a tangible good is achieved by any of the plethora of distributors (from the newly person fresh off the ground distributor to the Triple Diamond or Crown). It’s all a bunch of deceptive hot air! Just as most things in America anymore, Amway is a fraud and a colossal hoax!
I attended one meeting in an auditorium at a hotel in the summer of 1987 in Bellingham, WA with Brad Duncan and his entourage of sycophants. It cost me about 4 or 5 bucks for admission into that boorish event! Beyond the 4 or 5 bucks I believe I spent about 20 to 30 for a start-up kit (i.e., just to please the guy that dragged me to this meeting!). The soap and cleaning products worked out fine. After that, I had nothing else to do with Amway. It’s not a good business model for helping society at large. It’s about greed and taking advantage of the desperate sheepish crowd while unscrupulously utilizing powerful indoctrination persuasion. Read “Merchants of Deception” for the full story about Amway and its propaganda machine!
My advice: if ever approached by an Amway slick, head for the hills!
This is all very interesting… I was in the business in Vancouver when Brad Duncan was a Ruby… 20 + years ago…
Dean Kosage was a 4000 pin. I like all your comments. Take what was good out of the experience is my advise. This was a better time waster than many other bad habits you could have gotten caught up in. I now have passion for what I do. I enjoyed my time in WWDB and made my own way. Nothing in life is perfect!
Can’t believe the BS here. Many small businesses in America fail, whether by lack of capital, knowledge, customers, or even God forbid, a bad ability to handle cash flow and that of debt. I have known many who have built the business over the years. It’s more than going diamond. I have quite a few friends who are happy being Emeralds who pull in over $200k per year, rubies over $125k per year and platinums who pull in over $80k – ALL NET INCOME with less hours than they worked in their jobs.
If someone wronged you, sorry. That’s not Amway’s fault or even that person’s upline’s fault. Plain and simple. Look at any industry, from the music industry – how many artists ever get signed to a record deal and even those who do, actually go on to sell millions or even thousands of records? Not many. Athletes who get drafted to a professional team, only to get cut before preseason ends. For crying out loud! Roger Craig of the 49ers works at Tibco in Palo Alto, CA. and he pulled in millions in his NFL career.
If Greg Duncan filed bk, who cares. You’re not paying his bills. I have 3 friends who just went Emerald and are cruising to Diamond in WWDB. Ron Puryear only put the River house up to test the market as to what it would go for and the fact that the US Government is going to increase the death tax severely and that home would leave huge financial burdens to his kids. He doesn’t need the house. He’s happy at the other place. Still has the jet!
If you’re happy working your job, stay there. So what if Harstad’s left. Let’em. What about Brad Wolgamott? It’s up to him why he’s doing other things. Leslie’s still plowing forward and her business is growing rapidly as if Brad’s never left.
I’m glad many of you aren’t in the business anymore. We’re qualifying people way better than in previous years because it’s not about signing everyone and their dog on. It’s about building a strong network of people who have a strong will to achieve and succeed. I know Julio Garcia who for the last 3 years has pulled in over $150k per year at the age of 23 and hasn’t had a boss in 3 years. That’s pretty awesome. It’s up to the people he’s in business with to light a fire under their own asses and make something happen for themselves. But you want to blame everyone except that of yourselves for not achieving what you’d hoped to.
Top Fortune 1000 companies wouldn’t be wanting to channel partner with Amway if their model didn’t work. They grew by over $1.3Billion last year in a down economy. So much for them “losing money!” They created even greater bonuses and launched a $200Million+ campaign last year. How many of your companies did any marketing – don’t lie, I’m in the marketing/advertising industry and the majority of companies froze their budgets, cut staff, downsized facilities and it’s basically open ghost buildings here in the San Francisco Bay Area!
The divorce of Howie and Susan was because of Susan’s having sex outside her marriage. Not Howie’s fault and certainly not WWDB or Amway’s either. Can’t control someone like her unwillingness to stay true to her marriage.
Just because Dean got divorced doesn’t mean anything. He’s EDC and his business generates over $65Million internationally. He has over 35 millionaires in India through one business partner with over 11,000 people there.
I don’t see anyone talking bad about a similar business model with Amazon. But there’s bad issues in every company. I can say all kinds of crap about major telecom companies that I worked with, but I choose to not work with them anymore.
Amway’s not for everyone and that’s fine. I like it that way.
I had 22 people earn BMW’s in my downline in 2009, most of those will earn a six-figure income in 2010 and overall, my team grew by 650% in 2009.
There are 5 keys to finding the right company in Network Marketing today and none of them include “the company did 8 $8 billion worldwide and they own the Orlando Magic”.
The keys are:
- Corporate Leadership
- Field Leadership
- Compensation Plan
- Product
- Timing
WWDB/Amway has a fundamental flaw in 2-3 of those 5 keys.
LOL, WWDB and some of the leaders come under scrutiny because of what they taught. They taught that Amway saves marriages. Sounds hyppocritical when they are now in divorce proceedings. We were told to listen to Greg Duncan because of his financial acumen. LOL, maybe Greg can clean toilets in his spare time to make some extra cash.
Mr DeVaine, how do you know how much some people are making “net”? Do these folks show you their financial statements? Greg Duncan allegedly made millions a month.
I believe Greg Duncan was also one of the diamonds who at one time said NOBODY made a profit on the tools.
How do I know what people made in the business? They are close friends of mine. I have 6 very close friends who started their businesses before I did and are pulling in over $80k net. If you know anything about 1099 income, it’s all net income. They don’t have jobs anymore and all they do is build their businesses.
I have 5 friends who are Emeralds and don’t work jobs anymore and I’ve seen their 1099′s – we show our 1099′s to people to show our income from the corporation directly.
Dean Kosage’s end of year bonuses were $150k and $20k for Q12. That’s $170k just in bonuses! Not from selling cds or speaking. I believe anyone who is at the levels of being out there speaking, should get paid for their knowledge and training abilities. No different than Anthony Robbins who often leverages Videos in conferences that people pay hundreds of dollars to attend. To me, that’s a rip off. Atleast we’re learning from someone who has a successful business.
As for Greg cleaning toilets? Wrong. People invest their money into other things. Sometimes they win, sometimes they lose. Bill Britt’s lost tons of money in other ventures outside of Amway. But he’s far from broke. Same with Greg and Laurie. They’ll be fine, believe me. So what if they made profits off their tapes, cds etc..They’re great tools to leverage. They should get paid. No different than Van Halen’s recording a CD. Don’t they get paid? Why should a WWDB speaker be any different?
In the business, when speaking with a prospect, we can only legally state to that prospect the numbers – income – that is approved by the FTC and IRS.
Ty, what company are you affiliated with? You’ve not mentioned that here.
The fact that Amway is privately owned & operated and most of all, a pioneer in affiliate marketing is huge. As well, the fact that they are financially stable and own the #1 health & beauty companies in North America is also huge. The fact that they’ve been strong for over 50 years is even bigger. The executives at Amway are greatly respected people throughout the world. Ask Donald Trump, who greatly respects those who are in our business model. He’s rather well off and has had to file BK in various businesses. Does that mean people shouldn’t learn from him? Come on people, get real.
Wanna get real? Look at what Greg Duncan made from Amway. With that huge team, they make around $300,000. I know people who have been in business for 5 years in other companies and have a team 25% the size of Greg’s and make over $100,000/month.
Amway’s compensation plan is a 1959 used car and there are a lot of new cars out there today that are way better.
Training is very important, that’s why we offer all of our training for free on iTunes. I was with a 24 year old today who earned $4,000 in her first 3 months and will qualify for a BMW this month.
Wanna see what it’s like in the new school?
Watch the webinar: http://www.ty.ieiro.com/webinar.php
Mr Devaine,
I am glad your friend share their personal income with you. But a 1099 is not necessarily net income. If you win a jackpot in Las Vegas of more than $1200, you also get a 1099. At the end of the year, you have to pay tax on it.
Noone said Greg was broke. He’s just bankrupt. LOL
When I buy a Van halen cd, I expect music and that’s what I get. IBOs buying a WWDB cd expect business building information but that’s not what they get. How many WWDB emeralds and diamonds have emerged in the last ten years versus the number who quit or did not re-qualify? I suspect that WWDB took a loss.
And Amway’s sales and stability have nothing to do with individual IBO’s business success. System IBOs mainly suffer losses.
As Ty says, there are many many better opportunities out there. Even certain former Amway diamonds agree as they took their entire groups out of Amway.
Greg Duncan used to make fun out of people who made home loans. He called them stupid. That makes him a bankrupt hypocrite doesn’t it?
Mr. Devaine said: In the business, when speaking with a prospect, we can only legally state to that prospect the numbers – income – that is approved by the FTC and IRS.
Joe says: Can you tell us where you found this source where the FTC and the IRS “approves” what income claims Amway can use?
People can criticize Amway all they want. Fact of the matter is as they continue to complain and criticize others continue to build successful, profitable businesses. I have tried to build several times over the years and failed each time. Amway’s fault?…nope…my fault…no self discipline.
“The dogs bark but the caravan moves on”
If the tool/training profits are so honest, and so many people on the internet apparently have large issues with it, then why wouldn’t Brad and Greg just meet it head on going forward and talk about it meetings? We all know they make a ton of $$ on the tools yet they still don’t talk about it or share as if it’s a non-issue.
The problem is not that people sell books, the problem is they act like thier money is all from Amway and they share non of the tool/training profit with the people who are actually out there doing the work to bring people into the tools/functions.
So say a new IBO in WWDB bring 20 people to Duncan family reunion. At about $250 each it comes to $5000 yet why does the new IBO get 0 yet Brad and Greg rake in $5k?
All they talk about is Amway yet really their business model is largely dependent upon the existance of many instances of the hypothetical $5000 I just talked about.
This isn’t like NCAA coaches or Anthony Robbins …. If you can’t see the dishonesty in the above omissions of truth in the tool/training side business they have going on then your head is deep in the Amway WWDB rabbit hole and you’ll be fine being dishonest yourself. I wonder why they choose to never talk about or share the profits? Probably because they know too that its not honest.
At least regarding yourself more realistically, there is a part of you deep down that knows something’s just not quite on the up-n-up (as they know because they don’t like to talk about it either) … because bottom line is its not an honest business model.