This is from a post on the Quixtar Blog Forum. The last paragraph is interesting given the recent talk at the Quixtar Amway Opportunity Zone about doing things right. I know that the Quixtar Amway corporate bloggers have read my site in the past so lets hope they address this.
Hello all! We are new to this forum but ran across your question about John Crowe. For your information, he has left BWW along with his daughter and son-in law Dave & Kristin Dussault. Also, Jack and Magee Spencer have “jumped the shark” as well.
The “Callendar” team, most of which are unqualified diamonds, remained with Bill Britt. Some other defectors include Kanti and Hemi Gala who have started the “Winners” system which is most of the India business. Some additional IBOs have joined LTD as well to include but not limited to Tom and Connie Cooper, Louise Cole, and Terry and Laura Taylor. Rex has also defected from BWW but some of his downline like Dave Taylor (and his 20-something honey ), Angelo Nardone, Ray Melillo, etc. have remained with Bill.Â
Here is some other information for you to chew on. The situation with Paul Miller is as follows: he was sleeping with his secretary for 14 yrs, has 2 children with her, and apparently bought off the ex-husband, Rob, to keep him silent. It is true that Debbie was having an on-going affair with an Emerald’s son (who will remain nameless) who is now affiliated with LTD. Basically, Kanti Gala has stated that Bill is not welcome to speak at his functions unless Peggy is present with him. We personally have met and associated with many of these individuals.
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How do we know this information?… Well my husband and I built the Quixtar business for almost 7 yrs, being CORE for all those years. We were affiliated with BWW and then switched our affiliation to LTD over 1 yr ago. We qualified Double Eagle, Founders Platinum, and Q12 up until the time we decided to no longer build this business. We were profitable but due to the system expenses and revolving door business, we racked up over 60K in debt. We always struggled with our conscience
about the way the AQMO’s taught us to build the business and upon discovering about the “system” scam, we decided on principle we could no longer continue unwittingly defrauding and hurting other people.Â
Although we were shocked with how the Quixtar corporation handled our formal letter of complaint (and those of 8 of our downline) i.e. did nothing in spite of over 450 files of threats and violations of Quixtar business conduct and rules which we submitted, we realized that the corporation and the AQMO’s are one in the same. Terminating our relationship with the Quixtar business was one of the best decisions we ever made for our family.
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*********Adulterer Paul Miller and his Upline God, Adulterer Billy Britt absolutely have a vendetta against Larry. When Paul finally got divorced and Bill cheated on Peggy and was caught and she filed for divorce and they blamed it on a heart condition, the Winter's team had to carry the load of handling just about everything to do with BWW. Rex Renfrow had it out with Bill and left with harsh words at this time and numbers were in the crapper outside of Winters and Gala. Many, many good people and Diamonds businesses were affected more than they freely admit with all this. LTD is the end result of years and years of this type of nonsense. Leaders lead. It's as simple as that.
**********BWW function numbers have dropped drastically since the Winter's Team left. Very hard feelings and words were said and ending with Britt threatening legal action to keep LTD financially handcuffed. Trying to prevent them from producing their own training material's to no avail. The depth to which BWW has sunk would astonish the masses of IBOs still purchasing cd's with current Saphires on stage speaking as current and qualified Diamonds.
Anyone surprised by what LOA this platinum was in?
I have been in Amway and Quixtar for 19 years and most of that time as just a buyer and casual attender of system functions (tapes, CD's too). I have been involved in 4 systems due to leadership changes, the latest one Network 21. In my entire 19 years the only debt I ever racked up was my own consumer debt having nothing to do with either business. My husband and I have a special needs daughter and it has been her needs that spurred us on to actually build a business which we are now Q12 Platinums. My husband makes over $120k a year but her needs take $40-$80K of that per year. It is because of this opportunity that we were able to stay out of bankruptcy. We definitely believe in the system approach to network marketing but not to a cult-like degree. My Lord, how did you get into $60K debt – why didn't you stop at $5k or $10k. Having been in this business for almost 20 years, I understand that people are still quite imperfect. But it is nearly impossible to go into debt when the start-up cost is $100 OR if you are an idiot and buy every CD, DVD and go to every function, etc. but don't actively do the activites that build a profitable business!! No one who has been in as long as I have believes anyone who says they got into debt as thought you are a victim. The business is as simple as get a number, buy your own stuff and show others how to do the same – we still do not carry any inventory other than a couple of extra toothpastes or detergents in case we run out. Give me a break!
What you wrote really scared the heck outta me man. But seriously, how poor are you in math. You said you I quote "Well my husband and I built the Quixtar business for almost 7 yrs, being CORE for all those years. We were affiliated with BWW and then switched our affiliation to LTD over 1 yr ago. We qualified Double Eagle, Founders Platinum, and Q12 up until the time we decided to no longer build this business. We were profitable but due to the system expenses and revolving door business, we racked up over 60K in debt. Man!!!
As a Q12, your minimum income is at least 44K/YR (i.e 12month*$2000=$2400) + ($20K Q12 Bonus Check).
Now either you and your Husband are either DUMB, CRAZY, Poor in Math or I dont know what else to say.
You know all that happened in the world of Amway/Quixtar and BWW, LTD etc. but forgot to do the math.
Now do you know why this business didn't work. You Moron, this is an Independent Business Owner business. Not a lemme change the world business.
So all that you mentioned tells me that you were not in Business to make money but to point finger. Now thinking about it, only God knows if you were even doing the business. People who do this business make money.
Next time, after you leave a comment at least be bold enough to put your darn name to it.
I Love This Business!!! I dont care what anybody say’s!!! It’s giving me HOPE!! and I will be not rich but have true WEALTH by the time i get out HIGH SCHOOL!!!….at 17!..lol…Reprogram your brain and get 2 work and offer this good thing 2 somebody who u believe can help themselves!! PEACE LOVE AND KISSES!
You people are idiots defending these guys. Hanna, you are full of (edited). And you, Qyuantaious wtf. Go get a job in mcdonalds please.. I spent 19 years in the business,built it to close to emerald. I made enough money to stay home for 5 years. I was forced back to work when the upline decisions screwed up what we had as a team. I lost most of my people over two years, and decided that enough is enough. The couple above with the debt is probably right on the money. We had to go to 5-6 weekend functions per year at 2000 a pop when all was said and done. Inventory, gas, airfares, all add up to huge amounts. And oh, numbskull, did you factor in the taxes that they had to pay on the income you calculate? $ 44,000 self employment income, even if net profit, would then be taxed at close to 40%. Just a case in point of the corruption. Matt Du’s organization in china was/is huge(he was downline FROM ME here in my us organization). I never received 10 cents from that group because I was not a diamond. These (edited) have ripped people off for years. I left in 2004 because I could no longer stand the (edited). Get a life. Your a phony and a clown. Stop posting nonsense.
This is just great. Do you guys even know what profitability means????
OMG.. Your story loos like a bed time story that you read to a kid. Probably even the kid will laugh.. C’mon people. I am a new IBO (compared to u guys of 19 yrs experience) who has been in the business for 2 yrs and I am a qualified eagle with good solid structure. When you build good relationship and have a genuine interest in people, this business will be a piece of cake. Nowadays the profitability is sooo good that if you start selling some Nutrilite Double X and Artistry Creme Luxury, you guys can make back your $60k within 2-3 yrs. I have some single boys and girls in my team who can barely speak English but they make 200-300 profit a month..
I recruited Jake & Lisa Taylor back in ’78. They lived on 6-Forks Road in North Raleigh and were my x-wife’s clients. My old lady was a vet who started punching a clock at a clinic owned by Martin Litwack – a Jewish doctor on North Blvd just outside the inner beltline at Forest Animal Hospital – and later opened her own practice out-a-the back end of a yellow Honda CVCC Civic, I think it was. Litwack took care of Jesse Helms pooch “Patches”. We signed up under Gene & Mona Clothier of Wendell. Gene had a vet practice out there and his wife Mona was touted to be a former “Miss Guam”. Well, she was a looker, there’s no doubt about that. Gene was direct to Paul Miller. Then there was Chuck McFall, Tony Levan, Bill Britt then Dexter & Birdie. Jake was an accomplished artist and his beautiful wife Lisa was a programmer for the state and one of the brightest and most hilarious creatures I’ve ever met. They were more fun than a barrel of monkeys. Jake lived on the east side of 6-forks road – a mile or two south of the 6-forks. They recruited Tom & Connie Cooper, who were living in Chapel Hill, I think, at the time. Tom & Connie soon move to VA though, and started their struggling Amway business there. Jake & Lisa eventually got out. I got out not long after Rocky Covington’s $65/plate Diamond dinner at the Durham Civic Center, at which time we lost our $1500PV Bobby & Anne Thrower partners. I never thought Tom & Connie were gonna amount to a hill of beans. I might-a-misjudged. Me ‘n Paul road his new silver 450SL up there one night for a no-show. Somebody told me The American Way is no longer about the white board/easel/erasable marker/circles/shoe polish/LOC/hanky and that everyone clicks their way to success now. More power to ’em, I say. Anybody know how to get up with Tom/Connie now? If so, buzz me up on my website (www.fizzgiz.com). Thx in advance.
I have NO negative comments about any of the people Eleanor and I knew and associated with in the Amway business. The whole experience (12 years) was a blessing to us and our family.
Harry and Eleanor McArver.
Hi Good evening to all. My history with Amway began when I was 17 turning 18. I met my first boyfriend whose family was totally into Amway. I was so naive back then. I would do anything to please them so as to be liked by them. His mother always reminded me that her son will not get married until he was a direct.. and she told me that she prayed everyday for God to find her sons wives who will help them go direct and that if I’m not the one that God would find one who is. This is an example of how certain people will use this business to control people. I knew some very honest people in Amway, but on the other hand there are people who ruin it for others. I would suggest that if something doesn’t feel right, it probably isn’t.
My husband and I were in Amway for several years in the late 1990’s. We were totally gung-ho and CORE, bought the tapes, went to EVERY meeting, attended all the functions, etc. We didn’t get rich, but that’s not the point. It was a cult. We were in the Britt system, and the saying was ‘God, Family, Business….in that order.’ HOWEVER, it was stressed that real ‘warriors’ built the business 5/6 nights a week. The twisted logic was that by putting all that time and effort into the business you WERE putting your family before the business.
About 2 years into the business I started to have real doubts about what we were doing. Maybe it was just us, but we had gotten into the mode of looking for people to sponsor wherever we went. We always had an ulterior motive….Amway….when we talked with someone, asked for their business card, etc.
Back then it was required that you go to your upline Direct’s house for product pickup. We lived in the Chicago area, our upline Direct’s house was in a suburb, and some of the financially struggling people who lived in the city would drive 1-2 hours, depending on traffic, to go pick up the products they couldn’t afford. Don’t get me wrong…The Amway products are second-to-none, but they aren’t cheap. Some of the people really needed to be buying their laundry soap at the Dollar Store, even if it was inferior.
The long and short of it was that I really got a bad taste in my mouth about those things PLUS the functions really started to disgust me. It was idolatry….people treated the people who were wealthy and successful in Amway as gods. Their was a never-ending show of wealth, and I just couldn’t see where this had any real meaning in the grand scheme of things. Amassing wealth and possessions isn’t what life is about, in my opinion. It’s about loving God and loving people….not using people for personal gain and making Amway a religion.
My husband’s comment when I told him I didn’t want to build the business anymore was ‘I don’t think I can love you.’ Nice, huh? I had valid ethical reasons for wanting to get out, and he was so brainwashed that he looked at everything through Bill Britt glasses. Never mind that he had stopped working and was letting me work to support us because he had bought into the lie that a j.o.b. is a dirty word. He actually believed he was an Amway success story in the making and everything would somehow work out financially……yeah, your wife is working her butt off to make ends meet so you can posture and pose as a big-shot. I was chastised by our up-upline for ‘stealing my husband’s dream.’ It was a nightmare.
When I heard a few years ago about Paul and Debbie Miller and Bill and Peggy Britt I admit I was stunned. I actually thought they meant what they taught from stage. It gives me no pleasure to know that there has been adultery, divorce and heartache in their lives and in the lives of so many other Amway ‘success stories’. The bottom line is God is God, and Amway is NOT….neither is Bill Britt or Paul Miller.
I vowed before God NEVER to get into a multi-level marketing scheme again. I did not like the people we became, it nearly ruined our marriage, and we spent money we couldn’t afford so we could be CORE and do things ‘the right way’. Worst mistake we ever made!!!!
It sounds like you were reading the script from my life in Amway – except I got fired from a high paying 19 year job because my ‘husband’ insisted on giving our downlines my work number to call with orders and issues. Yep. We were “Rubies”. So when I lost ‘our’ bread and butter I quit doing anything in Amway. He also was a poser and bullsh****. He’d get people in and then dump them in my lap to coddle and listen to them whine. I couldn’t do it anymore. He’d go out of town with female downlines with no Upline for chaperoning. That’s when he said he wanted a divorce. So when he left me for a much younger woman at 40, my life went to hell in a handbasket. Now I have nothing but a $15 hourly job with no benefits or anything. Thanks for the lesson in morals, Amway.
Going into $60K in debt is flat out your own fault and demonstrates lack of wisdom, Amway or no Amway. I’ve studied this business up and down and found Amway is a complete %100 reputable company. Though this is the case, Amway, just like any other company/business has its flaws. There are members who are selfish, dishonest, filled with deceit with the intention of ill-gotten gain and self preserving propaganda. If your apart of a team with an upline like this, I totally understand your negative experiences and it’s disappointing to hear. But just like anything else, if you jump into something with wrong motives and selfish desires, you will most likely fail. There are some people who idolize this business and replace God with it and therefore give off the interpretation that it is a cult. I do not think that this business is a cult however, some people will and do treat it as such. This all depends on what team you are on and apart of. If you can ignore this portion of the business and surround yourself with earnest God-fearing men and women who truly have a heart for other people in serving, mentoring, and edifying other people into success then you will have a different outlook on Amway. There are those people in this business in fact as there are idiots obviously. But that’s everywhere. Some of the posts here are genuine expressions of disappointment due to bad experiences and I do sympathize. Others are simply from people with mouths bigger than their torso’s and enjoy speaking before thinking. First, taking 19 years to go Emerald would raise a red flag. But for starters 5-6 weekend functions do not and should not add up to $2000 a pop. If it does, then that would be a prime example of “idolatry” and you were a victim of your own stupidity. Second, your income does not get taxed at %40. Nothing does unless your well into the 7 digit income figure. Besides, being an INDEPENDENT business owner, you are responsible (how bout that) for all tax write-offs. If you actually did this, you’d be amazed at how little you cough up for taxes (which by the way you associated with “corruption” which has nothing to do with Amway but the government). As for others, this is not for everybody. If you join up with this business with the right motives and your blessed with a great team, I can tell you it is a honest, legal, and reputable company to be apart of. Just be wise with it.
All you have to do is pass a international business test with Amway to be global. You must be a platinum too. Whoever lost money in this is dumb. I was homeless when I started this business and didn't lose a cent yet. Keep your job till your Amway Business outperforms it. Whoever does otherwise is retarded. This business is simple. It's not a scam whoever went 60k in debt in this business is a certified crash dummy.
The Best Motivational Organization..that helps you (if you put the time, like any business) to Independently Prosper..Independently because establishing a business. Once you follow the System.. They never tell you quit your employment, this you do after earnings supercedes. Personally, I have learned moral, business, friendship values through a Large support team. Any business that you can reach out and be given solid good advise without prejudice must be given credit for helping someone who starts from basically nothing to Riches (of course its not an overnight success, you've got work it) and they've the proof to back it up, you will always have Doubters….Thank You Amway, though I have since gone I still value everything I've learned.
Can’t argue with the amway motivational organizations. I know a lot of 6 and 7 figure earners (me included) who got their starts with amway.
This is how the downlines get bankcrupt. The upplines, the Narcissistic ones, will bring all their downline together, and make them feel guilty, and tell them that the uppline platinum needs to qualify again. So what they do is get everyone on computer in front of everyone, and one by one, they push them to spend money to buy PRODUCTS, inventory they don’t need, inventory that hasn’t been ordered. Like the water filters, or double x.
The platinum qualifies again because of this but the downlines are out of money, they are in debt as this happens every month.
And if you ask “how come you didn’t stop at 5,000 debt, you must have been crazy,” no. This is psychology, and when you use it to get people to do these things it works because many who join are told if you don’t do it, you’re letting everyone here down, your team down, your friends down, your family down. It’s a sick manipulation tactic.
Me and my partner stopped but only after racking 11,000 debt and the upline platinum knew this, so he put us in front of everyone and starts judging us for going on debt, trying to say it’s our fault when he was pushing everyone to do it.
His name is MOHAN SING, who left whining and crying when Amway went to court in England and his team left him, everyone left. We all left, we had enough of him.
However, the motivational system is amazing but it soon became shit because what we order we didn’t get, and Mohan would sell his tapes he racked up to us, instead of tapes and CDs we ordered. Then says “see you got what you order,” when we didn’t.
I’ve seen 21% fighting over new sponsors with their own downlines.
They didn’t care about people but their own money, reputation and looking good to uplines. We told Manipal about Mohan but all he had to say was “OOoh we shouldn’t talk bad, but we can talk and help.” We left after that and knew nothing going to happen until Mohan left.
Mohan left as he cried like whiny baby because Amway won’t help him due to him not qualifying. He thought he was above the criteria. Then others left and they try to get us into another damn business. We had enough and moved on.
let those without sins cast the first stone!
Sounds like my experience. I signed paperwork to be a distributor 25 years ago. A childhood friend had contacted me, and I thought I was helping her out. She never did anything, but tried to recruit me again for Quixtar a few years later. I was in maybe a year and a half. I racked up a lot of debt, “faking it till you make it”. You get brainwashed by listening to the tapes all the time. Once I got out (my plan was to transfer to a different line of sponsorship) and quit listening to the tapes for about a week, it was if a fog had cleared from my brain. I realized what I had just been through, and realized I got more people into it. I sincerely hope the people I sponsored quit quickly, and my actions have not led to more people being recruited. To anyone reading about it, being prospected / recruited….. It is not a harmless activity. You WILL be “love bombed”, you will be pressured to “fake it till you make it”…… The money isn’t in the “6-4-2” like they tell you. The money is in recruiting enough people, that you get a cut of the tape / cd / convention sales. I can tell you that my life would have been much better had I missed that phone call, or if someone that already knew, had told me it was a bad, bad deal.