I ignored the first comment that suggested that Arbonne’s January Bonus Checks bounced. I didn’t report on the second comment either, because I thought it might be someone who is a competitor or Arbonne hater.
I have now received a 3rd comment and the commenter has a MyArbonne Email address.
Here is the comment:
OK — now I’m worried. My Jan. check from Arbonne was returned for insufficient funds.
If the consultant is not paid – this is the ultimate deal breaker as the sales force is the foundation of the company. I was optimistic after listening to the videos and information on the Arbonne website about the restructuring, but don’t know if I can continue to align myself with a company that continues to over promise and under deliver.
Arbonne’s words
You can fully expect Arbonne to maintain normal business operations throughout the restructuring process, with no disruptions to our relationships with our Independent Consultants, customers, employees, or suppliers. Likewise, you and your fellow Independent Consultants can be confident that your compensation from commissions and overrides is secure.Yet they have hired Duran Duran to play at the National Training Conference. HMMMMM….
Update: The Arbonne consultant sent me confirmation of the insufficient funds check. (Yes I saw proof.) It was nearly $1200 returned for insufficient funds. This is no rumor. There is good news and bad news. Bad news is that she is being told that the banks froze the accounts for a 24 hour period, causing the check to bounce. Good news is that she was told that a new check plus bank fees will be sent out.
Maybe most important is her sadness with regards to the "spin and hype" about this serious situation.
I spoke to 2 reps I know and both of them said they’re January checks were paid no problem. They also said the next wave of commissions will be paid on Feb 10th for January Business
Jeff
Ty, wouldn’t you consider your comments about Arbonne a little biased considering you are part of the network marketing company Eiro Research. Being a blogger on mlm it seems you would try to provide both sides of the story yet youhave taken the unethical path. It will catch up with you.
I have been writing this blog since October of 2003. There have been tons of positive articles about Arbonne over the years.
You will notice that this blog does post both sides of the story…look at the comments. You will see positive and negative. (Unlike the Arbonne Blog where it’s all peaches and cream).
You can play blame the blogger all you want, but I didn’t bounce the check. I just told you about.
Yes I am a successful Network Marketer with a company that grew by 650% in 2009. 3 people on my team earned BMW’s in January and so far, I have helped 30 people earn BMW’s and 2 earn Porsche 911 Convertibles.
I love helping people develop a business both online and offline. It’s my passion to see people win and I am very saddened to see hard working Arbonne consultants struggle.
And he used to sell Amway and I used to sell Partylite and probably half the Arbonne people here sold Mary Kay or Avon. Working for another company is irrelevant.
Don’t kill the messenger. Your problem is with those who are sending the message.
From what I have seen no comments positive or negative have been moderated here. He posted the press releases Arbonne has put out, it’s not his fault they don’t make any sense.
Sandy, I’m not sure why you’re picking on this blog when the husband of an ENVP is writing much more scathing material on his blog. He says:
“Arbonne Chapter 11 Bankruptcy Freezes Consultant Commission Checks …”
This blog has always been fair, whether good or bad. That’s why it’s the most widely read in the industry and not just a cheerleading camp for whichever company Ty is working with.
This is bad.
My dad taught me that as a business owner people will put up with a lot of things… but not getting paid on time and accurately is the deal breaker.
When the money is wrong the trust is gone.
If there is one thing I can say as a regular reader of this blog is Ty has always been fair to companies that do the business correctly. Hell he even posts when Amway does something good.
As if not telling their ICs about the bankruptcy filing wasn’t enough…
Now ICs had no notice that Arbonne’s accounts were/are frozen and they can’t cash their checks.
Think about this. It can take up to 2 weeks for a check to come back unpaid. People pay bills. They spend that money when it clears. When it comes back unpaid, it can send your checking account into a tailspin that, even if Arbonne repays the fees, does nothing to repair the damage. One missed payment on anything these days can default anyone into a horrible “perfect storm” of banking and credit issues.
If I wrote a $1200 bad check, I would be arrested. What is going to happen to Arbonne?
Still not a word from my upline or Arbonne on the status of my returned check. And yes, this has sent my Arbonne checking account into a tailspin. I also found out that this has happened to many other consultants.
The Arbonee model relies on a consultant getting several people under her–say 4. Let’s say arbonne starts with 10 consultants. The first layer is then 40 people. Now they have to get 4 people each. that is 160. Now they have to get 4 each. that is 6400. Now they have to get 4 each. That is 25,600. In a few more steps, you exceed the total number of people in ALL MLM sales positions. Once you run out of new people, the last layer can’t make money and quits. Then the layer above them has no people and they quit, and so on.
the only way this business model works is if there are an infinite number of people entering the business. Otherwise it maxes out and begins to decay. As soon as you see Amway reps or Arbonne reps approaching strangers in the mall, you know that the market is saturated.
The first few people in the game do make a lot of money, and the company uses them to convince more people to join. But only the first few layers can possibly get enough people under them to make so much money.
This is not a new scam folks. It has been done since the ’80’s or earlier. THe only difference between this and a pyramid scheme is that there is some product involved instead of just pouring cash into a pool.
Don’t feel bad about it. Take it as a valuable lesson and move on. But for pity’s sake, don’t continue to pour money into a scam. They aren’t bouncing checks because they are healthy. If the business model did not work before filing bankruptcy, it wont work after.
The Truth…it appears you have no idea how MLM compensation plans work. What you are referring to is, in fact, an illegal pyramid scheme. Network marketing or MLM is entirely different my friend, and the product is only part of it. Please do some more homework before making comments like this.
Wow, I talked to some Arbonne reps and they seem to not
worry too much or they made me think they weren’t worried.
Then there are some who are afraid because of
the bounced checks and the changes that are taking place.
Some of them that I talked to didn’t even know what was
going on. That must be sad. Perhaps, they were not too
serious about the business in the first place.
To answer the “truth’s” post, the market will never be
saturated. There are far too many people. And it’s not just
about recruiting, it is also selling a product. So those in
Arbonne, for example, can sell the products to make
money and those clients who want to sell the products too
can sign up to sell as well. Then, it’s not just about selling
products and recruiting, but it is about people helping
people and growing individually as well as a team.
Making friends in this industry has made it a really
awesome business model.
I’m very saddened and upset about Arbonne’s lies and how they are telling all the consultants this is a good thing. Since when is Bankruptcy ever a good thing? I’m getting phone calls that checks are bouncing everywhere! If anybody is considering partnering with Arbonne at this point, it’s much too risky. I know from first-hand experience, that checks have been pulled and vicious Arbonne uplines who sabotage their team so they can gain their check. They are all running scared and are lying to people. If you are looking for a home-based business, think twice. There are so many other businesses out there that are not in bankruptcy. Arbonne reps are drinking the Kool Aide.
My check cleared just fine. Is this true or just a rumor? I haven’t hear anything from our region about this and we are really close. I would be surprised if this happened, but maybe this is why they just started offering direct deposit for DMs last month, because they were shifting accounts and didn’t want this to happen? I will say our team had a call wth our NVP a couple of months ago when the rumblings of Chapter 11 surfaced and she said that it was an option,and may happen in the next couple of months. So our nation wasn’t surprised at all. I feel bad if it was a surprise to some conultants. I will say that our NVP is pretty good about delivering information ASAP and answering questions head on. She is a VERY real NVP. She has never trained to start a new consultant with a large purchase, she trains that we can start with sample packs if that is all they had a budget for..she has a true heart and I feel so lucky to be on her team. And she happens to be in the million dollar club.
Name,
Be sure you understand what a “check clearing” means.
You deposit a check. Your bank makes those funds available to you within the time frame established by law and the bank’s policies (usually 1-10 days). That does not mean the check has cleared the check writer’s bank. It can take 2 weeks or more for a “bad check” to be returned NSF. When the check you were written PHYSICALLY gets to the writer’s bank for processing, if there are not funds available THAT VERY SECOND, it will be returned and charged back to your bank, who will in turn charge it back to your account.
Just because your bank has made the funds available to you per their policies and the law doesn’t mean the check may not eventually be returned.
Watch your statements or online banking. If it were me, I would not spend a penny of that money until it “matured” in my account for several weeks.
My check cleared just fine as well. And I am somewhat confused as I read in the P&P that we do not issue checks for less than $25.00 – they are held until the amount reaches $25.00 & then issued so I don’t understand how checks for less than this amount are not “clearing.”
Am I happy about the Chapter 11, not really, but I do understand the reasoning behind the move. It is simply business. It’s NOT personal. It’s just business. I do however sympathize with those who did not know this was coming. I, too was never informed beforehand by my NVP & RVP and in fact asked my RVP & NVP about this months ago & was informed they knew nothing.Did I believe them? Does it really matter if I did or didn’t?
In the end, it doesn’t. I have learned the surest bet is to wager on myself. What matters now is what we each individually do from here forward.
Can I face myself in the mirror knowing that I presented the “opportunity” to someone while rumors swirled around about the bankruptcy. Absolutely! Because I never presented the “opportunity” once I found out. I went back to the basics and sold these wonderful products retail and will continue to do so until I believe the company is secure. And by being secure, what I mean is they have to meet MY expectations as to what I believe is security.
What Arbonne is guilty of is not updating their website with current statistics- but how many of us are guilty of the same thing? How many of us purported a “debt-free” company on our own websites or in our presentations? Did you r e a l l y believe this? Do you really believe every single thing you read everywhere?
Remember the rumors about “bat-poop” being in other brands of mascaras. Come on, what person is employed to specifically collect “bat-poop” to put in mascara?
At what point do we individually accept responsibility for our own business(es) and make our own decisions based on what is right for each one of us and our own family.
I truly understand the anger, frustration and sadness of the people in the Arbonne community, but what I don’t understand is how others in the NM industry can bash us and then in the next breath, attempt to recruit us into their business. That, in my opinion is exploitation.
I deposited my check on Jan 18, and Arbonne has the same bank as I do, so I feel pretty secure that the check cleared. If something changes I will post on here.
I’ve only been a constultant for a few months, but felt initially nervous when they asked everyone who joined to provide their SS #. Still, it was a very secure website, so I let that go. Then my sponsor told me I had to buy about $2000 worth of products to get started as a consultant. I nearly fainted. Too embarassed to say anything, I put it on my credit card. Then I found out that I had to keep buying products and signing up preferred clients or consultants. Then came the filing of Chapter 11. The final straw was when my January commission check bounced. I blew a gasket. When I posted my experience and anger on the Arbonne facebook page, I was met with cheerleaders who put me down for being negative. In fairness, someone from Arbonne apologized and said they would straighten it out. And in full disclosure, my screen name here is just that – a screen name. But I’m a real person with real feelings, and I never felt right about selling the Kool-Aid to my friends. (by that I mean the business opportunity) I just wanted to sell the products and make a few extra dollars a month. I love the products. They are great, if a bit pricey. But the rest of it is too much for me. Someone here said that their father always said when the money stops, it’s time to get out. (or words to that effect) I’m getting out. I could have bought a roomfull of furniture for that $2000. Good lesson, though expensive.
Dear Lorraine,
The DSA has a provision that member companies must take back unopened stock/merchandise and payback 90% of the purchase price. I don’t know all the ins and outs but I know it’s there to protect consultants.
Hopefully not all your products were opened and you can get some of your money back.
I am sickened that your upline mislead you! I am sure there are plenty of Arbonne leaders who would feel this way too. NO ONE needs to spend $2000 to get started in any MLM business.
I learned about this type of deceptive enrollment in Oct of 2006 and to see that it is still going on 4 years later……..not sure what to say! Of course at the time I didn’t believe it because my team didn’t operate that way, we offered choices.
I was at a training with a big fish in Aug 2007 who said that the RSVP package was the best way to get started, no need to by 10 – 12 kits.
It was then I realized it was true, along with other things that didn’t sit well.
Have you called the corporate office to tell them what happened?
As a leader, we are given trust by those who we bring into the business. And as a new consultant, we trust those who bring us in.
I firmly believe in my industry but it is the intregrity of leadership – both field and corporate – that will determine the rise and fall of the business. .
Good luck to you!
Lorraine, call ARbonne and see if you can get your money back for those products. You should let them know who your sponsor and NVP is. This is exactly what happens and keeps happening and why the company is going downhill. I hope you sponsor wasn’t a friend that did this go you.
Snowflake, I agree with you!
I heard someone say that a check didn’t clear for 6.65 or something, and I know they don’t send checks of that amount. Atleast, from the time they updated the payscale system. I did, in 2006 and 2007 receive smaller checks of $25 or less, until I promoted.
Arbonne does send checks for under $25 if one has not earned over $25 in a 3-month period. So it is plausible that checks for under $25 were issued.
And while I will admit that I am now speculating, Arbonne may have pre-emptively issued checks for all commissions owing any consultant regardless of amount in preparation for their Chapter 11 filing in January, to prevent having to list those consultants owed commissions under $25 in their matrix of unsecured creditors. I’m sure if Counsel is still reading he will chime in.
Whether they issued a $6.60 check is irrelevant, anyway. Ty has said AM sent him a scan of her $1200+ NSF check. I don’t see anyone talking about that. You are doing the same thing the company is doing: refocusing attention onto irrelevant details and ignoring what you don’t want attention drawn to.
Now that you have reconciled that $6.60 check issue in your mind (couldn’t POSSIBLY be true, the company SAYS they don’t issue checks for that amount!), how do you feel about the $1200+ NSF check? How about the lady with the $50k+ NSF check?
There was someone with a 50k bounced check???
Chloe, she posted somewhere in the comments of one of these blog entries. I forget which one, I think it was the Bankruptcy Rumors one.
Dave, whose ENVP husband has a blog about all of the Arbonne goings on? I would love to read the perspective of someone’s husband that is as ticked as the rest of us for all the crazy stuff that’s happening. The fact that there are so many unknowns is the biggest issue. The products are great and the people are wonderful (albeit still drinking the Kool-Aid. I was there, I get that now but I resented hearing that when I was entrenched in the culture.) but all these questions and concerns will kill a company in this industry faster than a bankruptcy.
I resigned as an NVP in 2009 after paying attention to all the little things that were going on that didn’t sit well in my heart. For a year I wouldn’t sponsor anyone in this business but did trainings on the products and sold product, which I love. I watched my hard working team members not get ahead and really start losing ground doing the same amount of activity as they had before. . Listening to “the language” of the people that I have loved in this company, I realized that all questions or concerns are met with an assault of : “You aren’t in enough activity”, “You should always stay positive and not think about anything negative”, “What you speak about your bring about so don’t focus on what you’re questioning…just get into activity.” All good advice on most fronts but when it’s meant to stuff your head back in the sand, it becomes scary stuff.
I’m sad for Arbonne because this is not what the intention was when this company began. They could’ve and could still stay in the game but it’s going to take a whole lot to do that…and whole lot more than they’re willing to say. I remember when I started that the company was still debt free at that time and then Harvest Partners came in and put $25 million into us to bring our online systems up to snuff. That was only 5 years ago. Where did all this debt come from in just 5 short years and does it even matter now anyway? The company that has 80% of Arbonne’s loans is a trigger happy one that cares nothing about those of you collecting a check. They are bottom line people. Pay attention to what’s going on with St. Vincent’s hospital in Manhattan right now. Same group has 80% of Arbonne and if they’re willing to consider closing down a much needed medical facility, I would be a little bit more concerned about my home based business than what some of you are showing. Notice when you read the information on St. Vincent’s the amount of their debt (what they owe is actually less than the under reported Arbonne debt) and the loans they’ve had to get just to float them through the end of February. I don’t know how all this will shake down but it’s not a simple fix…and it’s not a small deal.
I also want to mention that I’ve heard Arbonne leadership and IC’s say that other network marketing companies trying to recruit Arbonne people is illegal. Really? Come on, people. If that’s the case, than how come we were never taught in Arbonne NOT to prospect other leaders and peple involved in other NM’s? It’s a sad day when we resort to scare tactics to keep the field in place.
If you’re a leader, the best advice I can give you is to lead. Lead your team somewhere safe and somewhere you can all win. Don’t go for the “let’s all lock arms and sing KumBaYah” stuff that I smell going on. I can almost hear the words of VP’s saying, “It’s all okay, let’s just keep on doing what we know to do and all those with no faith or commitment will leave and miss out on the best thing in their lives. Those people lack vision and didn’t work hard enough anyway.” Hum…smells like red Kool-Aid to me.
Learn about compensation plans and companies and why most don’t work and how they work. Don’t listen to anyone tell you that their plan is the best out there unless you really know what a company must have to be successful for you AND those you lead into it. Do some research and ask some people you trust that will be honest with you (most NM’s will just be really excited and not tell you the truth about their business…cause you may be the one that could actually change their business) about the comp plan affecting their lives.
Get quiet and still and each IC (new or a seasoned leader) needs to weigh what’s going on and make the best decision for their family. If you really believe Arbonne is going to come out of this mess on top, keep your team where it is and pray hard you’re right. After all, you don’t want to be the one to “bring it down” by going to another company, do you? (Taste familiar?)
Independent business people make independent decisions and leaders lead. Are you leading or following? There’s no time like the present to figure that out.
I threw my big ol’ comment out there so fast that I didn’t post that I have found a home in the NM industry that is safe. I’m grateful for where I am and with the leadership that makes me a better person just for being around them. My husband is actually building this business with me rather than staying home to watch the kids so I could be gone 3 nights per week for events. I have loved my time in Arbonne but I’m honored to be somewhere that is simple, all about business and that will protect those of us in the field with honesty and a solid business plan. No debt with this company that is self funded by the people that are operating it. That speaks to my husband and me and so we’re enjoying this new way of life with a powerfully quiet pace setter in the industry.
I just read through the bankruptcy documents online and there is actually verbiage in there about checks that may not clear…so Arbonne knew this would happen and didn’t let us know! Now that bothers me. I don’t like the wait and let’s see if we are caught mentality. Look online at the “Case Document” titled “Debtors Preserve the Arbonne Independent Consultant Neywork” PDF page 16. That worries me. I wasn’t worried at all because my check cleared..but now I know that they thought that checks wouldn’t clear and didn’t inform us….,
Greg Loveless is the husband of the ENVP Linda Loveless. His blog is http://www.voicewind.net/ and you can see that the post was removed and it appears he has posted his rebuttal to the letter he received from Arbonne.
I have to agree, Kool-Aid. Telling your IC’s that it is UNETHICAL or ILLEGAL to recruit from Arbonne is not true. It might violate some DSA code of conduct, but let’s look at that: MonaVie, Nu Skin, Amway, Xango, MAX, and a litany of other network marketing companies are members of the DSA. All those companies have recruited other networkers from other companies and now you have Arbonne hiding behind this tactic.
I’m not encouraging Arbonne consultants to leave–merely asking the question: if your ship was going down, would it be unethical or illegal to hide the life rafts?
My girlfriends mom joined momentis and 3 of her bonus checks were returned for insuffcient funds. My friend is asking me if I have heard of this happening to anyone else and I told her that I do no know. I suggested for them to call the BBB.