Home Amway Larry Winters - Leadership Development Team Selling the New Winters System

Selling the New Winters System

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Emerald, Greg Franics promotes the new Leadership Team Development CDs:

Buy The Tools – Buy The Tools – Buy The Tools

My favorite quote is:

"looking forward to seeing huge tool orders"

Of course Greg Franics is looking forward to huge tool orders. Cha-ching. He makes money every time one is sold in his downline.

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"Ty Tribble is an Internet entrepreneur, author and Work At Home Dad who lives in Seattle, Washington with his wife, Richelle and two children, Emma and Tyler. Ty has been featured in Entrepreneur and Success From Home magazine and is considered by many as the # 1 blogger in the world on the subject of Network Marketing. Author of the book, ‘Double Your Income with Network Marketing’, Ty teaches lead generation strategies through social media and blogging to tens of thousands of Network Marketers around the world."

52 COMMENTS

  1. Hey, Does anyone know the Actual Break down of the tools money, when i was on the Francis team (WAS) i heard it was $1.25 a tool going through your group when you go direct, who makes the rest and what does the person on the CD Make off a $7.50 cd? kinda confused on that. side note, its funny they call these things tools when the real tools are the ones buying them it seems…

  2. Phil,

    It varies by group and system, but rest assured, if the CD's are not being sold for less tahn $1.00, someone is making too much money.

  3. In the BWW system, platinums got $1.25 a tape (which we were told to use to buy more tapes/books with to have an inventory for ibo's). Emeralds made $.75 a tape and Diamonds made $.50 a tape. Double eagles and Ultimate eagles also made "additional" monies on top of that. Function tix were $5 a ticket for Emeralds.

  4. I was sponsored by a WWDB Diamond in Amway/Quixtar and WWDB used a similar pay out before they changed the system recently.

    So my diamond sponsor was actually getting $1.25 + $.75 + $.50. I wish I had know that while I was carrying extra standing orders for people that had quit.

  5. You guys have any idea what goes in a business? Everybody IN the business knows they make money on tools!
    so are you trying to tell me that because a Brittany Spears sells her cds for $16, man… she should be selling it for less than $1 because that's the cost… wow, yeah, stay at your job hahaha

  6. Yeah man, plus Im excited of getting that kind of profit when i go emerald and Diamond!
    Do you think those guys didnt pay the whole price on their way to platinum, emerald or diamond? Its great taht's available to anybody that goes platinum or beyond!
    If you can't do the business, don't try to blame it….

  7. Mike/Joe (since we know you are the same person),

    I haven't had a job since August of 2002 so yeah, I guess I know what goes into a business. I also know a crappy system and compensation plan when I see one.

    With all due respect to Ms. Spears, her job is selling CD's. Your upline is supposed to be in Quixtar, helping you make money in Quixtar…instead they make most of their money from people like you that lose money every month.

  8. Yeah and its clear that there are 2 businesses, actually multiple ones, and teaching me to go platinum/emerald/diamond is helping me make money just the way he is making it right? from cds and everything, its a business, i dont see anything with it. I even say it at the plan that when you reach higher levels you make money also from the system…
    As long as it is open for any new platinum to also make that money, There's nothing wrong with that picture for me…

  9. Mike,

    I don't see a real problem with Quixtar leaders making money on tools…

    The issue I have is two-fold:

    1. The leaders make money on the system.

    2. The system doesn't work.

    That is a problem. The Quixtar compensation plan is a 1959 comp plan that doesn't pay enough money for the volume that you produce, so the diamonds subsidize it by charging and profiting from the tools.

    A real leader does not let his/her downline lose money for an extended period of time.

    • Ty,

      I like this response, because of the #2:

      “The System Doesn’t Work”

      If the system works – there’s nothing wrong with profiting. You and I both make money selling blogging, marketing, etc products to our team and the generic MLM community.

      I think the actual problem in Amway/Quixtar is 3 fold:

      1. The system costs are abusive – it’s one thing to profit, but another to abuse it.

      2. The top guys don’t know how to recruit anymore, (in a lot of teams), so the training sucks on actual sponsoring.

      3. They’re secretive about the tool money (In my organization, it took me 3 1/2 years to get my upline to admit that there was money made off of tools – I would have loved the idea, had I been told when I started)

      I love some of those Amway tapes, and still have a closet full and listen from time to time, but when it comes to training, almost every MLM company has better training on how to BUILD the business.

      The worst training on recruiting I’ve ever heard in my life is Bill Hawkins ‘Prospecting In The 21st Century’

      It has hundreds of thousands of people wandering around in shopping malls to grow their business.

      I’d rather do almost anything else for a living.

      That being said – I don’t think discounting what Amway has created is entirely smart.

      I created an offline system that uses elements of what I learned in Amway for my own team, but the profit margins are way less, and my whole team earns a 1 level affiliate pay for it to cover their own costs.

      There is some value to it – regardless of it’s abuse.

      -Dave Wood

      • Hey Dave,

        I do make money selling information products, but I provide these products to my team at EIRO for free. I don’t charge my team for training, because I make money when I help them succeed.

  10. Why are you against people making money off of tools? Isn't that how the capitalist system works? Buying somthing at one price, selling them at a higher price to cover your expenses and hopefully having some left over for profit. That is how things work in the market place. When someone states something like:
    It varies by group and system, but rest assured, if the CD's are not being sold for less tahn $1.00, someone is making too much money

    Making Too Much Money?!?!?!? What is that supposed to mean? Let me see…. if it costs lets say $5,000.00 to make and distribute 10,000 CD's. How much are you supposed to sell them for to not make "Too Much" money? $.50 each… $1.00??? Should we charge $1.00 each untill we make our $5,000 back and then give the rest away for free? Or do we sell them for a reasonable price that the market will pay? There is a business side to CD's and other Biz Support Materials, why is it wrong to provide a service at a reasonable price and enjoy the fruits of your labor? If you think that making money is wrong there is a little island about 90 miles South of Key West that you might look at.

  11. The IBO'S are not telling the distributors that they are making a profit from the tapes,books and functions instead of selling the Amway's products.

    It is un-ethical and dishonest to do business like that.

  12. 1) Does Wal-Mart, RadioShack, BestBuy, Sears, Starbucks, McDonald's, Any College/University or any other business need to tell their customers that money is being made off of their purchases?
    2) I was told from day 1 that there was profit in tools.
    3) Nothing in the world is bought or sold without some profit (or loss) involved. There is no free lunch because SOMEBODY had to pay for it, it might not have been the end user to pay, but somebody paid.

  13. First, an excessive amount of money is being made off of the tools.

    Second, the tools (system) doesn't even work.

    The diamond lifestyle in Quixtar would not be possible without the profits on tools, yet the reason most people lose money each month is because of the money they spend on the tools.

    It's wrong.

  14. Yeah Ty you're completely right, the system doesnt work, right, then again you probably never were really IN the system, because so many lives have been turned out for the better because of it, ppl are more spiritually inclined, better ppl skills, better relationship at home, but the cds dont work right? try listening to them, and reading the books…
    and if it doesnt work, how about all the Diamonds in the biz? emeralds? platinums? and all the free wives????
    Why am I making money?…. yeah like james said, its clear to everybody that money is made in the system…
    So everybody that starts is a naive person and good, but as soon as they hit platinum qualification they turn into bad ppl, that likes to make money off of the ppl that are on their team that they have been driving the miles and become close to…. wow…

  15. Im not sure if you read books… if you do great, but you know, its not very.. business like, to be effective, to put other businesses down to incline ppl to your business, ppl wont see you as somebody that is only out for the positive… Do you see us trying to put down your business? yeah because we're not threatened by it, 6 billion dollars world wide and affiliated w/ the biggest companies out there…. I think that's pretty good what do you think?
    that proves something about the system doesnt it?

  16. McDonald doesn't make money by selling you a tape. They make money by selling you a hamburger.
    The Amway compensation model is obsolete.

  17. Have you ever heard of the Pepsi Challenge?

    That was where Pepsi compared themselves to Coke and proved that most people prefer the taste Pepsi…are you saying that Pepsi is not very business like?

    If we are on the subject of being business like, is it business like or serving your people as a leader if over 90% of your downline lose money each month?

  18. Alright, lets go back to the first one, 2004 there were like 17 new diamonds, about 10-12 on the organization that im part of, then last year it broke 3-4 i believe, on my organization, then this yr, ofc the fiscal yr there's no way of knowing for sure, and all the years before diamonds have been breaking consistenly… so the system use to work? and now all of the sudden doesnt work anymore?? like you said, its the same system right? and yeah let me tell you the exact number of ppl in the organization… i know over a million, but no way to tell,just look at the sales… you gotta have a lot of ppl to do that kind of sales dont you think? and how long were you in the business? were you plugged in? u know core? were you consistently? nobody that i know doing the recommended is not moving on, all are.
    and ppl are not losing money, they are investing in themselves and in the business. If they quit, they might not see a profit, but they gained intangibles im sure if they were plugged in, but how are you supposed to see a profit if you dont stay consistent?? so they might think they lose money because they quit before they saw profits, or they never really did anything….
    do you know that 5% of all IBOs ever sponsor 3 ppl? is that because the system doesnt work? or ppl dont work!? and about the same % of ppl that actually show 3 plans/week…
    you can't be in a biz and not do anything and expect to make money, that's the ibo's fault… that's why there's all this negative stuff on the web, the 95% of the ppl that get in but dont have the commitment/back bone to do anything consistent… or its just not for them like they say, it might not be for them, and that's fine, not everybody wants to be a doctor either, but dont blame it on the business…

  19. >>do you know that 5% of all IBOs ever sponsor 3 ppl? is that because the system doesnt work?<<

    YES!!!!! That is because the Quixtar system doesn't work!

    I have helped 14 people make $1,000/month or more in Oasis LIfeSciences since December 5th. I'll compare that number to any diamond in Quixtar and I am not even a diamond in Oasis yet.

    Again, let's make this simple.

    How many IBO's are in your system?

    How many went diamond so far this year?

    What percentage is that?

  20. OK Mike,

    I'll bite.

    How many new diamonds has the "team" you are affiliated with broken this year to date? Emeralds?

    How many people are on the system, total?

    How much money is being spent on the system?

    P.S. I was personally sponsored by a diamond and resigned.

  21. There are thousands of IBOs in my system, hundreds of thousands. The year is not over yet, so I cant even tell you how many. I hope that you know that percentage of IBOs and all those things are irrelevant, you dont know who's building the business or not.
    I tell you Ty, I have nothing against you, or Oasis. Im sure you're a great guy, great family I see and you try to give the best example for your kids and you're securing your families income thru ur businesses. Also I consider myself a good person too, christian, willing to help ppl, true to them and all. Im looking to have 100+ to this coming Function, and Im working with a lot of them, young, old, all kinds of backgrounds. They all know how the business and the system works, AND that ppl make money from both, and I wanna help all of them reach platinum and above to make money from both sources! Cuz when they win I win. Simple, however, they choose to do the work like Im doing. And im sorry, but i will not take the blame for any weirdo in my industry. We are all INDEPENDENT BOs, the way I run my biz has nothing to do w/ somebody else messing it up. If somebody stole money from tools or didnt tell their downlines is their mistake, but the opportunity is fair and we can all succeed if we choose to.

  22. and you putting negative things about my industry online make new ppl that dont know anything believe that this is a bad deal, or that Im a bad guy and Im trying to take advantage of them. which is not true and I wont accept that. Like you said ppl that build this biz are good ppl, but it doesnt make sense to say that as soon as they grow in the business they become greedy lookin to make money off their own ppl. My best friends are in this business, we have a blast together! and Im sure Oasis you guys are good too, but name ppl and their mistakes, not the whole thing in general.

  23. Mike,

    I wish I could say that one group in Quixtar is really different than others, but they are not. Yes there are a few differences, but the major things are all the same.

    If you believe that I am just "putting negative things online" than point out where I am wrong, provide proof that I am wrong and I will correct it.

    I was in Amway/Quixtar for 10 years and I have spoken to more than 300 current and former Amway/Quixtar IBO's, including over a dozen diamonds and emeralds. I have a pretty good idea about what I am writing about.

  24. Ty,

    Like I said, what was your work ethic during those 10 yrs? I can guarantee you if you were showing plans every week you would've been doing good by now, what was the last pin you hit on qxtr?

    also, i see you've talked to a lot of ppl, but 300 is nothing compared to the amount of ppl in the business… less than 1%…

    and like I said, 5% of ibos stp 3/week consitently, and how can be 20% success rate, 1out of 5 be a platinum if each platinumship has… oh lets say 40-70 ppl… of course the percentage is low…
    Dave and Kristin Dussault went diamond in 5 yrs, 1st yr they were 200pv… they went diamond in 2005… doesnt work? they are lucky??

  25. It doesn't work.

    I am willing to bet that I have more people making over $1,000 a month than Dave and Kristin Dussault in less than 1/10th the time.

  26. >>what would happen if ALL IBOs got a direct comission from the sale of TOOLs, irrespective of pin level?<<

    You would have a bunch of people sharing in the profits of a system that doesn't work in the first place.

    If a football coach goes 1-16 for 10 years straight, do they replace the players or the coach and his system?

  27. Alright Ty, If you think that…,
    tell me a little about Oasis, How do you create money so fast? How were you able to grow your business so fast and on qxtr you couldnt? Im sure ppl are just jumping into your business, so how are you doing it? most selling… sponsoring…

  28. First off… the percentage of people who get to a certain pin level does not prove that a system works or does not work. (example – what percentage of people who enroll in college actually graduate, and then what percent of graduates ever make any money) I'm personally not looking for an "Easy Way" to Diamond or a get rich quick system. I prefer that Diamond be a challenge so that I know that I earned not only the money but the respect of my team. My upline Diamond made over $400k his first year at that pin. But the money wasn't the drive. Being able to go to Peter Island w/ his upline and cross-line and knowing that they all paid the price to get there was his drive. As for the how can someone be a leader when 90% of their downline loose money thought…. I've never met anybody in the business who has lost money. It's not like my upline says hey give me all your money for tools and then I never see the tools or my upline again or like anybody stocks up pallets of detergent and soap that they can't get rid of (6 month money back guarantee). From the way some people complain about MLM's one would think that they were never told about how they work and were scammed into signing up so they could become millionaires in justa a few short weeks, and were disappointed when their get rich quick fantasies were not realized and they actually had to work to get something.

  29. OK James,

    I assure you that the % of people that enroll and graduate from college is WAY better than the % of people that turn a profit in Quixtar.

    If you want to torture yourself with the the company that is the most difficult to build has the worst repuation and one of the worst comp plans in the industry, be my guest.

    At least be honest with yourself.

    How long have you been in?

    How much was your last bonus check?

    How much did you spend on tools?

  30. Mike,

    There are really only two steps to building a profitable business.

    1. Sell Products
    2. Sponsor People

    Two main reasons why Oasis is growing so fast in my opinion.

    1. We lead with the product, not the opportunity.

    2. Oasis understands that there are 3 quadrants to Network Marketing compensation and they pay well in each quardrant.

  31. hey Ty, question for you, just wanted to clarify…
    so you're telling me you were on amway for 10 yrs, never did anything w/ it or never made any money w/ it right… so in december of 2005 you got into Oasis and now 4 months later you're retired?

  32. Mike,

    I was in Amway/Quixtar for 10 years. Very active for 5 years and was at best in the 4,000PV area. Like most people, I never made any money. Now I know that many Silvers and Platinums don't even make money, so it is not surprising that I didn't.

    In March of 2003, I resigned from Quixtar and started building Passport. (Bo Short's company). Within 6 months, I had built one of the fastest growing teams of associates in the company. In Feb. '05, Bo asked me to come on board at Passport corporate and I served as President of Passport and still do.

    In Dec. '05, we made the decision to merge our associates with the associates in Oasis LifeSciences.

    I make a great income in Oasis, but I don't consider myself retired. Diamonds in Quixtar certainly aren't retired. (Look at the schedule of one)

    I am involved with a couple of other businesses outside of Oasis.

    Long answer to a simple question.

    No I am not reitred, yes I make a very nice income after only 4 months and I have helped others make great money…fast.

  33. Well ofc most diamonds are not retired, i meant retired from their job. I dont wanna be retired for a long time, I think its awesome to go out there and keep helping ppl and motivating them, no matter which business. Its great to help ur fellow brother you know…

    So when yall merged you went back to zero on your income?? and now starting all over again? growing?

    well no wonder you're putting down quixtar, YOU'RE PART OF THEIR BOARD OF DIRECTORS… its kinda like your job to do that!

  34. Ty,

    You're contradicting yourself on a couple of points:

    "1. The leaders make money on the system."

    "2. The system doesn't work."

    If the system doesn't work, then HOW could they make any money? You can't have it both ways. Either the system is working, or it's not. In order for a "system", any system, to make money, it has to work doesn't it?

    Your line of reasoning doesn't make any sense. I am sure you'll come up with some B.S. that can explain it.

  35. Michael,

    I leave the B.S. for you, my friend.

    If the purpose of the system is to be a profit center for the leaders, then it works fine.

    However, isn't the purpose of the system to help people build a profitable Quixtar business?

  36. So Ty,

    I ask again,

    If the system doesn't work, then HOW could they make any money?

    As to your answer-with-a-question response,

    "isn't the purpose of the system to help people build a profitable Quixtar business?"

    Yes it is…and my answer, YES it does!!!

    Thanks for playing!

  37. Michael,

    I love the way you ignore all facts and go about your day thinking that you are right.

    The leaders make money on the system by scamming people like you. It's not that hard to figure out.

  38. It's amazing how many "former" Quixtar IBOs leave the business and then join a different business and then experience immediate success claiming how their business is so much better. I wonder if it had not been for the system, that you may have even opened your mind to being the "great father that you are". I wonder if it had not been for the system, you wouldn't have all these freakin' blogs everywhere in cyberspace. Geez, how many do you have now Ty? I also wonder how many people you took with you from Passport and now into Oasis. Are your 14+ people who are making $1000+ brand new people you brought in or are some of them from Passport who already had a downline thereby showing "how much faster" you can make money. How many of those that are making money are learning to put there money where it'll work for them. As you may know, money isn't the answer to all problems. It's the growth that comes while achieving and the relationships that are built in the process.

    I also wonder how many of your new downline are "former Quixtar IBOs". I would probably guess it's a majority of your business. I know it's just speculation and I could totally be wrong, but I don't believe you're out there "contacting" as hard as Quixtar IBOs do. I would think it's much easier to coerce (probably not the word I want, but you know what I mean) an IBO who's not had the success he may have expected into telling them how much better your business is than what they are currently doing. Which I believe is unethical. I have never in my time in the business told how their business is "the devil" or whatever and attempted to bring them into my business. I've always encouraged them to succeed in their endeavor and I've even led people to Passport when some of my own downline felt that the "system" wasn't for them.

    Too bad you aren't doing that anymore. Are you going to delete all your posts which talked about how great Passport was and how they didn't like using "titles" or complicated compensation plans or high start-up costs w/ expensive products? I would probably have so much respect for you if you build your business through your own merit rather than putting other people down. There are people in my organization who are focused on retail and on helping their downline grow and not just to the "ones in the system". Are they Diamonds yet? no, but are they making money? yes they are and have fun doing it w/o putting down people who have jobs or in different businesses. people buy products and get in their businesses because people want to follow them and support them. I'm not in the Winters system, but I do truly respect them and almost every week I get Kates on the growth in their team.

    And yes, your business may not have the hassle of "greedy kingpins" w/ systems, but please don't mislead people that Oasis is different than any other network marketing company in the industry. There are people with doubt, skepticism, and quitters in ANY business. The only thing is, since you don't have a system like the AQMOs, the quitters in your business doesn't have anyone else to blame except for themselves now. Ty, if YOU quit, it's not Oasis' fault, it's YOURS. Not your upline, it's YOURS. But, since we do have AQMOs, it's of course, their fault. Ty, I would follow you if I had a reason to. With all the blogs you've created and all the work you've done, I admire your work ethic. You definitely have the potential to be great. Coming from a guy you don't know, but with good intentions…

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